Slavery didn’t end because the slaves revolted. It ended because white people fought to abolish it. The North could have allowed the South to continue on as a separate nation with slaves, but they insisted the Confederacy remain with the Union, AND end slavery.
Often the downtrodden need those in power to use that power to fight for them.
Slavery didn’t end because the slaves revolted. It ended because white people fought to abolish it.
Holy revisionist history!!
White abolitionists absolutely played a role in ending chattel slavery in the United States, not the least of which were John Brown, the 48ers, and others who were doing what they did for the goal of Abolition primarily.
The vast majority of northern politicians, generals, and soldiers, were engaged in the Civil war to preserve the Union, first and foremost. Abolition was a distant secondary concern for most of them.
Furthermore, Slaves weren’t just sitting on their asses waiting to be freed by the benevolence of white people, they were agents of history all on their own. W.E.B. DuBois argued in Black Reconstruction in America that an underdiscussed turning point in the Civil War was when slaves engaged in one of the largest general strikes in American history. A strike which crippled the southern economy and thus its ability to sustain the war.
So yes, Slavery did end in very large part because the slaves revolted.
It’s not revisionist at at all. In fact you partially agreed with me, that WHITE abolitionists were prime agents of ending slavery.
Slavery ended IN PART because the slaves resisted, but it’s revisionist history to pretend that the enormous Civil War that killed millions of Americans, mostly white, didn’t play the most major role in the end of slavery.
There wasn’t a single American slave revolt that contributed substantially to the end of slavery. When Union armies started encroaching on Southern territory, slaves abandoned their posts, and headed to Northern lines, but it wasn’t anything organized. DuBois characterized it as a General Strike, but it was really just the slaves taking advantage of the opportunity of a lifetime. There was no organized revolt, no General Strike, just individual motivation to escape while it was possible.
Sure, the Union Army was fighting to preserve the Union, but they were also well aware that the ONLY issue that was dividing the Union was slavery. Literally every Southern Constitution, and the Confederate Declaration of Independence made it very clear that their single issue was slavery. Without Slavery, there is no Civil War. And without the mostly white Union Army, the South would have continued with slavery.
There wasn’t a single American slave revolt that contributed substantially to the end of slavery.
Except I literally gave you an example of one…The massive general strike of slaves which crippled the southern economy
Du Bois wrote that, as Union forces marched through the South, enslaved laborers escaped plantations, presenting themselves at army camps to join the fight.
https://daily.jstor.org/did-black-rebellion-win-the-civil-war/
So even DuBois, who was the first to characterize the initial liberation of the slaves as a General Strike, acknowledged that the “General Strike” was preceded by the encroaching Union Army encouraging them. They were already essentially free. Walking off the plantation was just the slaves claiming their new status as free people.
A General Strike implies organization, and that wasn’t strictly true. They didn’t plan for it, set a date, etc. When the Army got close, and everybody knew the region was inevitably going to fall, they walked off the job. If the Northern Army hadn’t shown up, would those slaves had done a General Strike on their own? Of course not, any “General Strike” was only as a result of the approaching army, and the recognition that the end was imminent anyway.
This wasn’t a General Strike, it was just the end of slavery. It’s like characterizing the closing of a company as a General Strike. It isn’t a strike, and all the workers walked off the job, the factory just closed, and everybody lost their jobs.
Sounds like you’re a white savior
No, I have a degree in history. I prefer facts to vibes.
The simple truth is that slavery was ended by the Civil War, with a Union Army that was 10% black soldiers, and 90% white soldiers. That’s just a simple fact, from our National Archives.
It isn’t revisionist history to acknowledge that slavery was ended primarily through the deaths of white soldiers, and pointing that out doesn’t make me a white savior. I have also heavily studied Critical Race Theory, and think it should be taught at a high school level in America. I think we could go a long way in educating Americans about the true and significant contributions of black Americans, but that doesn’t require making up new facts that support our personal fantasies. That’s MAGA thinking.
Sounds like you have a deep disdain for anyone non white, you should consider working on that. By the way, your degree, HIStory, sexist as fuck.
Well, I tried to be respectful, and offer facts as my reply, but this one is a special kind of self-righteous dickhead.
Yes that’s why I’m asking you to work on your outdated, sexist and racist beliefs.
Nothing I said was wrong, and you didn’t even attempt to dispute it. You just went straight to calling me names because I pointed out the simple historical fact that an enormous army of primarily white soldiers was the primary driver of the end of slavery. I acknowledged that slaves and black soldiers helped, but it is simply an historical fact that the war wasn’t ended by a General Strike (which may not even have really happened, it was just one person’s characterization of the situation), it was ended by the overwhelming might of the Union Army, which was 90% white. Sorry if the truth makes you uncomfortable.
You are a shallow thinker who doesn’t understand that pointing out actual historical facts that don’t align with your 21st century ideologies doesn’t make me sexist or racist, just accurate.
Your insistence that I’m sexist and racist is ignorant, and silly. Besides, where did you get Sexist from? We were talking about slavery, so I could see where a confused person could somehow fall back on a racist label, but sexist? That wasn’t part of the discussion in any way. That was just you piling on to someone you’ve decided to hate simply because they repeated a truth that makes you uncomfortable. You’re the one spewing the bigotry, not me.
Maybe YOU should work on THAT.
Your degree is in HIS-story. HIS being the prefix you’re choosing to use. It’s blatantly sexist by ignoring the plight women have suffered throughout time. Classic white savior tactic. Obfuscate the truth to push a racist narrative. You really think things would be better if the south won? Why would you even imply something like that?
Imagine thinking that only minorities can stand up for minority rights. What’s your suggestion then, that White people have no business doing anything but maintaining the status quo, because it’s not their place to speak out for others?
Imagine
This is a hilarious take. How far do you think it would go if only black people cared about black problems? If only black people fought against slavery, I’m almost certain it would still be widespread publicly. It still certainly is t fixed. We still have systemic corruption and incarceration based servitude for slave wages, but on an individual level, it’s been mostly taken care of and because it wasn’t just the directly affect fighting against it. No, minorities do not need anyone to speak for them, but other people, especially those of the same race as the oppressors, it needs to happen. Otherwise “they’re just being uppity again.”
Get em dude
As a trans white woman, tbh I remember when the discussion was that privileged people should be amplifying minority voices and talking points, and at least on the axes I’m oppressed along I stand by that position. A lot of people are unwilling to listen to me about my humanity, but they are a hell of a lot more likely to listen to my cis relatives.
Also those discussions can be exhausting for the affected and having the non affected doing 101 level talks with each other spares me them.
Fellow white transfem here, I definitely agree that there’s a time and place for unaffected people to advocate for a minority.
That said, if I’m being charitable to OP, there are absolutely times when minorities get talked over in ways that really suck.
I once attended a listening circle/support group that came together as a piece of transphobic legislation was likely to pass in my state. I went, expecting a good mix of trans folks and allies, and that we’d be coming together to vent our frustrations and figure out a way forward.
But what I got instead was a room full of mostly cis people, talking over the trans people in the room, and being all sad and morose, like the bill in question was already a foregone conclusion. Like the trans people in the room were a lost cause to mourn, rather than worth helping.
And that… Sucked! That bill didn’t pass, but it wasn’t because any of the cis people in that room did anything to help.
Damn we getting mad at white women again?
As someone that defended humanity of Palestinians and spoke out against Israel genocide, it’s okay if white women talk about the plight of others or the oppression they suffer
Shitpost. But yes I’m very mad.
i think some people are missing the point in that its making fun of the people that do this for the vanity instead of actually caring
Correct
If it’s intended to call out the vain, why does it say white liberals?
White
Are you saying all white people who advocate for minorities are virtue seeking and self congratulating
Yes, I am making that genuine and sincere statement in a shitpost.
Does that mean you believe white liberals don’t actually care about minorities?
Who?
I am a cis white woman. My opinion has never, in my life, mattered to any real consequence. I am not liberal, I am an anarchist. Fuck this title. My opinion has never mattered in the scheme of things and never will. What’s the best I could ever do? Be loud on Twitter? Maybe run for minor local office and lose to a rich fuck? No. My opinions do not, in fact matter. They never have, and they never will.
Perfect
I worry about this sometimes. I don’t ever want to be seen as speaking “for” minorities I’m not a member of, but I do want to be seen speaking “up for” them. And I worry about finding the right balance. I don’t want to speak over them, but do want to help make it clear that I support them and I am opposed to those who are opposed to them. I don’t want to be MLK’s “white moderate”.
You don’t need to worry about shit. Propaganda like the OP’s serves only to make you feel guilty about speaking up, pushing you to become one of MLK’s white moderates.
If you’re in a position to advocate for a group who’s voice is being muffled, do it.
You already know the distinction between that and talking over them - don’t let internet bullshit blur the line.
I feel that the most important thing is to speak out against the people who oppose minorities’ rights. You don’t need to speak for minorities to oppose those who oppress them.
Don’t worry, this is just chud racist propaganda in an attempt to divide the left by race.
Speak truth to power and punch Nazis.
Most folks I know just want you to treat em like people. And if someone’s being a dick to the it’s certainly right to call it out (and maybe spit on em if the circumstance permits).
I struggle with this too. I’m reading White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo right now though and it’s main suggestion is to just oppose racism when you see it. Call white people out on their behavior even if it makes everyone uncomfortable and makes you unpopular.
Also, to listen to feedback from people of color without getting defensive. No one is going to be perfect and we live in a system which is constantly socializing us, it’s ok if we fuck up but just try and fix it when you learn better.
I heard this once, and it’s stuck with me since: don’t speak for people that you don’t speak to. It helps me remember that I don’t really know the challenges a marginalized community faces if I’m not a part of it, and I should do the work of listening and understanding before inserting myself into a situation with perhaps well-intentioned, but misguided, attempts at helping.
Enable them to speak for themselves. Be the person that notices they are missing from the conversation and invites them in.
Stand beside, not in front.
You can stand in front as a shield, but only then.
Universal concepts, like Justice.
Careful thinking justice is a universe or objective concept.
I could make the case for systemic racism in the justice system: how and why it happens. But if I dont feel educated enough in that subject to do it justice, I could just say that everybody deserves the right to a fair trial, based on their actions rather than their skin color.
So, back in real life. At a protest? Yes, it’s valuable for white people to speak up, since they’re more difficult for police to persecute. Sorry you’re too uninformed and naice to realize this, so wise OP.
Do you know some leading organization that are let concerned people speak, organized and plan their actions, without someone that want to “help them to understand their own conditions” ? I know some organizations dike that, and their are out of the limelight by others. And those others are liberal that think their have the right knowledge and their are need … or vanguard leftists that think they have the right political thinking to analyse the situation.
In both case, they are acting like missionaries (and are their are some historical and sociological link).
You take one example (that is true), but this is not enough. White people could act under the control of the collective; with an imperative mandate of what that person shall talk to, or what line shall that person defend, without asking his mind
💋
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a CommunistThen they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a SocialistThen they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionistThen they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a JewThen they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for meI’m left
Then they came for the shitposters.
OK, now its time to speak out. That’s going too far!!
Hee hee ho ho ha ha
Nobody needs/wants the white liberal to speak for them, but another voice in the crowd demanding something surely can’t be a bad thing?
Apparently OP is “all white people are bad! the people who are on our side and those who are not! silence!!”
Depends
You’re being downvoted but the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen is white people deciding Latinx structure was the proper way of making something gender neutral in Spanish.
We can’t even fucking pronounce that in SPANISH!
But more annoyingly was that it ignored that there was already a gender neutral movement anyway that had started in Mexico that DID use something that could be pronounced: Latine structure.
It’s honestly insane that (even as rarely as it’s relevant for a european) this thread is the first I heard of “latine”. All that discourse about latinx and NOW finally I’m being told that there’s been a less stupid attempt at a solution before that. Finally I can stop feeling weird as I’m trying to decide whether to just say latinos as I have no idea what the socially accepted word is in the context I’m in. I can just say latine.
Honestly Latinos (plural) doesn’t really bother most of us either because the language is just gendered, but doesn’t mean we’re literally thinking a chair is a woman or a tv is a man.
But, in the rare case where a gender neutral word would be better, such as referring to a person’s gender (singular), then Latine and such is useful. So El, Ella, É etc
Im just having fun
Racist post. I hope it isn’t tolerated by the community.
Do activists with a messiah complex exist? Yes. Are they annoying? Yes. Should folks considered “white” and politically “liberal” be generalized into having this attribute? No. It’s racist to do so.
OP is quite bigoted and should know better.
Sounds like I did it correctly. Get fucked silly head. Its a shitpost specifically to bother idiots like you. Teeheee
“I get to code my racism behind a flair, checkmate atheist!”
Cry harder, explain how this post in any way means I am racist.
Yeah I’m crying hard lol
Watch me use my tears as lube 🍆💦
Stop trying to turn me on! Thats where I draw the farcical shitpost line.
As long as you don’t “correct” or act like you know better that minorities, you will be a good Ally.
Don’t say “I will help you!”, instead ask “how can i help you?”
It’s funny because I’m constantly seeing minority groups telling white people not to ask how to help and to just figure it out and help or get out of the way.
It’s kinda frustrating hearing so many different takes on white people trying to help because it feels like a large portion don’t want us to help at all
The thing is, to us, what you can do to help is so obvious that it feels like we’re being asked how to breathe.
Help your community, volunteer for a cause, don’t get involved in acts of hatred disguised as moralism or the defense of a national or ethnic identity, educate yourself by reading authors who are part of the minority you want to support, confront and accept the reality of privilege, etc.
But also, often the question “How can I help?” masks the real question: “How can I be a hero to your people?”. So I suppose that before one ask how to help, one should first ask oneself “Do I really want to help?” and be honest about it.
What if the minorities are wrong?
That’s the question from which fucked up shit start to happen, but let’s take it at face value.
In that case, you can look for a segment of the minority group that aligns with your ideals (because not all of us think the same way, we’re not a collective mind) and offer them your support.
Do you encounter, say, Latinos who support Trump? Leave them alone and offer support to Latinos who are critical of Trump; We’ll know how to use your help to take actions that benefit all of us, including those who are “wrong.”
do you approve of the term “LatinX”?
Nop! Not a single bit!
I doesn’t fit the pronunciation rules of most latinamerican countries, not even Brazil. I mean, How do you “say” that? what sound does the X represents? It’s like “LatinEx”? That sounds so silly! Like a Kingdom Hearts Villain or something.
If you want to be inclusive / non-binary, you better use “Latine” (La-ti-ne). That’s how the “inclusive language” works here.
Although, I argue that “Latino” is OK either way, since you’re talking about the collective from “LATINO-America”.
Are there still more than like 5 people trying to make Latinx a thing? I thought that one kind of died out early on, but I’m not a member of that community.
thank you. i’m not latino, but it always struck me as WTF when all of a sudden “let me be offended for you” people decided they needed to “fix” an entire language’s “sexist” word that none of its speakers were ever offended by
That’s the Imperialist Mentality: “Woke Edition” for you.
It is important to understand the context of who defined it.
It was mainly defined by queer people in various Latin communities as a self descriptor. LGBT acceptance within the various Spanish speaking communities in general is nowhere near universal, which explains why adoption of Latinx isn’t a thing.
I’d only use the descriptor if I knew that a lot of people there within earshot wanted to use that description.
Yeah, latine is the one that caught on because it’s pronouncable, but latinx and latin@ are both things that I see from an outsider perspective as similar to the use of womxn in English. Unpronouncable words that come with a very political purpose. Latinx was not good to catch on, and I think it only ever did because of a chain of who was speaking to each other, but it fairly quickly fell out of favor.
Personally as a white American queer person I’m going to just mirror the language latin folks use. I have international solidarity with my fellow queer people and so I hope that if they come to a terminology they prefer that it catches on, but I also understand that I don’t have a say in the fight over another language’s terminology.
No, just “latin”. Drop the o or a, done
Or latine. Or just latino/a, depending on context, as is the norm in all of spanish.
In this case, minorities could learn by themselves, to under another leadership.
What if the minorities are causing harm to society by being wrong, such as distrusting vaccines?
Because a conclusion is incorrect do not imply that everything that lead to this conclusion is incorrect.
First, your obviously struggle to convince people. So even if this is the only objective, we have to inform ourselves better to understand what we are missing. This is a better stand, but I think this is still an issue : we don’t really listen people if we think they are wrong.
If our stand is right, this is not an issue to try to prove it wrong. So let’s discuss in order to be proven that vaccines shall not be trusted. I mean, with reliable sources and shit. However personal experiences are reliable sources, but not as much as collective one which and not as scientific consensus.
And their is some serious concerns about vaccines : in Africa, some vaccines campaign was used to use people as test-subject, Falashas has been collectively sterilized. Those are not exception, coloniale and oppressive context regularly use health to justify oppression (on race, gender, sexual orientation or origin).
So if we took what seems obvious to us in order to help, we may just reproduce what other people from the social origins use to oppress. In this conditions, the intuition to oppose to our speech is a good one. To do that, we have to value the knowledge of the exact same people that we may look down upon otherwise
Impossible. People like Jesse Lee Peterson don’t exist.
I think there isn’t a black and white (no pun intended) rule when it comes to standing up for someone else.
There are situations where it’s appropriate and situations it’s not.
And it’s hard to say across the board to keep your mouth shut if you are white and see another group being discriminated against. Or to always interject yourself.
I’m a woman and I think of the times I’ve been in a situation where I really would have appreciated a man stepping in so that I didn’t have to be the one woman calling out something so blatantly misogynist.
Because then I’m seen as the bad person. The snowflake.
But other times, I think . Men need to shut up about what they think women need or want about our reproductive health because they don’t know anything. But I sure would like it if they supported what we said.
My general rule is. I back people up if they say something about an injustice and show I support them.
But if I see blatant discrimination and injustices being enacted on someone, I will call it out.
And try my best not to draw attention to the person being discriminated against and make them feel embarrassed.
What a chud post.
NLG OP is kind of the cancer we all wished stayed on reddit.
Take shitposts seriously and get into fights with strangers on the internet.
Gang shit
how dare you disagree with a shitpost
How dare you shit on a disagree post
My bait is too tasty for some fish. Hooked em.
One of the few people ive tagged for this. Not yet worth blocking, sojust whenever I see him post I dont interact with themAre you trying to make me cry?I’ll have you know some people like me. 😉 do you understand the context of a baiting shitpost vs a authentic opinion? It is a shitpost community after all.
Shut the fuck up saying racist shit is just a shitpost/joke.
Go post some white power bullshit then if that’s your goal.
If you want to be racist, then just fucking do it.
Hee hee ho ho ha ha. Looks like you’re the one that’s gonna cry. I haven’t said or done anything racist. You fucking WISH I did.
You are hiding behind a joke. Which is classic racist chud behavior.
Either you need to think before you act or you are trying to be racist.
Own up to criticism or fuck off.
Hee hee hoo hoo ha ha. You need to think before you engage with a shitpost. You’re feeding me the exact meal I want. Chomp chomp chomp
Pretty easy decision to block based on annoyingness level, thanks
Yeaah I needed to see a single hee hoo and I was done
You are not a troll, you are a racist infiltrator. And I’m calling you out.
Oh god oh fuck oh shit. What am I going to do? Is your blood boiling yet?
