I cannot fathom how more and more men are latching onto this shit even as statistically, they are more lonely than ever before.
Because toxic masculinity communities are one of the few online spaces which don’t stigmatize you for being a white male and daring to have problems in your life despite your “privilege”.
If people stopped talking down on young males and actually listened to their problems, all these toxic masculinity gurus wouldn’t get the tiniest fraction of the following they have. But as long as we keep pushing onto them all the sins of everyone who ever lived with their same gender, they’ll end up falling in those communities which turns them into Andrew Tate replicas.
The problem with this is, and it drives me crazy, I keep hearing “if we talked to them-”
I’m a woman! They won’t talk to me! Or, if they do, it’s to tell me why I’m wrong, because I’m a woman! This isn’t something I can deprogram away!
And trust me, I’ve deprogrammed right-wing shitheads before, who weren’t also misogynists. I can’t do shit for the ones who aren’t willing to talk to me. And the worst part? I have gotten lots of seemingly hopeless people into committed, loving, long-term relationships through the power of just listen to me, I can help you, but nooooo! I have breasts! I’m almost 40! I have a happy, long-term relationship, and I’m a woman, so what can I possibly know!
I’m sick to death of ‘we just need to-’ No we don’t, because we can’t. Men need to. Men need to break through this toxic bullshit because we, and by this I mean, women, literally can’t. And trying- and trust me on this because I’ve tried- trying only gets abuse.
I really can’t underscore this enough. The wall I come up against is, what do you know, you’re a woman. “We” can’t talk our way out of this one. The problem of toxic masculinity intentionally boxes women out, making it nigh impossible for women to help.
I know. The main thing they need is a non-misogynist male role model, which is becoming increasingly hard to find because apparently social media algorithms encourage the type of content that pushes them in the opposite direction.
Realistically, imo, the main way women can help with this, besides talking to them very early on (VERY early on, as Tate-types are unfortunately gaining traction in school as well), is trying to combat the misandrist narrative that keeps on growing in feminist spaces. One example is the whole Bear debacle, which furthered the divide between genders even more. If people (in general, I’m sure many men shared it as well) keep making stuff like that go viral, it makes it harder and harder for young males to develop any sort of empathy for the opposite sex.
I find it very difficult to empathize with the ‘bear thing,’ because, as my fiance (who is a man) put it, ‘I don’t know why anyone would pick any other human over the bear. Bears tend to avoid you and do your own thing. Humans are unpredictable.’
From that perspective, it seemed like a lot of people just got mad because they identify with the word ‘man,’ here, and don’t want to think of themselves as capable of evil. Which would be naive, because everyone is capable of anything.
Except that nobody stigmatises people for being a white male and having problems.
Everyone has problems; the fact is though, that this rhetoric you just used, is part of a tactic to sow division. When the real problem is the oligarchs, that want to distract from them causing those problems.
The ‘loneliness pandemic’? Caused by dating companies trying to profit on relationships. The more often you get a date but that just about fails, the better.
Your feed showing ragebait? Again, it feeds the algorithm and interaction with that social network, giving the owner more profit.
Toxic masculinity communities absolutely stigmatise; try for example showing empathy, hugging friends, and so on… and toxic masculinity communities by definition, are extremely hateful towards any sort of compassion. They trap you in a cycle fed by rich people so that you focus hatred on minorities, which ultimately share the same problems just as you.
Everyone is poorer, everyone has issues to work through, everyone needs a good home and life, affordable and healthy food; and the prime cause for all that being impossible, is oligarchs trying to divide us; because they know we have strength in numbers.
I know broadly that the left has pretty much abandoned any talk making people’s personal lives better and instead has tripled down on the idea that “bad people are bad” for the sake of some lofty and impossible ideal of a star-trek world so liberals can broadly feel like they’re a part of some social good. Look at the votes here now, we have created a reactionary space exactly like the right.
Dare suggest that young men have ANY problems? STRAIGHT TO THE NAZI-RIGHT WITH YOU. Never mind that these are kids who have never felt an ounce of privilege in their lives, so telling them they’re entitled instead of talking to them and giving advice for getting girls and romance just pushes them away. But it just feels so good to hate a side though, right???
But that damage is done. We have a massive rightward swing in the US because we mismanaged fucking talking to each other. Like tripping and breaking your skull while laying in bed. We deserve this mess honestly.
We have created spaces where people with any differences are segregated and you will get roasted in places like this for reminding delusional lefties that even if we got our socialist revolution (which someone else will lead, aannnny day now), we would still have to live next to hundreds of millions of people who didn’t want it. That usually draws a lot of ire because it’s not optimistic enough and involves the uncomfortable truth that we share a world with people who aren’t going to always “get it” and we need to work, live and talk amongst them. Forever.
Where i’m baffled though is the basic math. Younger people are having less and less sex and relationships, people are broadly staying single and not dating or having any intimacy well into adulthood and often have NO plans to date or have a family even, so how is this eruption of sweaty used-car-salesmen making traction? There are no success stories, it’s entirely manufactured. It’s no different than the flat-earth movement but for pudgy white teenage boys.
We are a species that rather withdraw into our own narratives than face reality and it will be our great filter.
Where i’m baffled though is the basic math. Younger people are having less and less sex and relationships, people are broadly staying single and not dating or having any intimacy well into adulthood and often have NO plans to date or have a family even, so how is this eruption of sweaty used-car-salesmen making traction? There are no success stories, it’s entirely manufactured. It’s no different than the flat-earth movement but for pudgy white teenage boys.
The “success story” is Andrew Tate, and probably even people like Musk or Trump. They see how extremely misogynistic people manage to get with multiple women nonetheless and get fooled into thinking being “stoic” and generally a jerk is the key to getting laid. They don’t realize that those people are just rich and are getting laid despite their personality, not thanks to it.
Then there’s also the ones who are fully aware of this and are sold on the “grind mentality”, so that they can get rich like them (again, missing the point on how all of them either did it through crimes, were born rich, or both).
Of course if you look at it with some logic it all falls apart, but you can’t expect young people to have enough knowledge to do this. They need some positive role model to tell them right from wrong, but it’s becoming increasingly hard when the negative ones keep springing up like mushrooms.
How is someone who beats wives and rapes children alike a success story? Applies to both.
How is someone a success story, when they get into crippling debt and can’t even get their dick up, yet claim to be the perfect image of a virile guy?
For me, as one of those “success stories”, true success lies in empathy and respect. Hard work must be used to give back to society, and whoever gives not back, must be respectfully shunned and made to give back, until they reach out and ask for help; and then answer is given in the form of unionising, protesting against oligarchies trying to break down mental health facilities, protesting against hatred that must fail to divide us.
Types that may seem beyond saving, I think can be saved; if they radicalised once, they can deradicalise once again. But it does require effort.
Because toxic masculinity communities are one of the few online spaces which don’t stigmatize you for being a white male and daring to have problems in your life despite your “privilege”.
If people stopped talking down on young males and actually listened to their problems, all these toxic masculinity gurus wouldn’t get the tiniest fraction of the following they have. But as long as we keep pushing onto them all the sins of everyone who ever lived with their same gender, they’ll end up falling in those communities which turns them into Andrew Tate replicas.
The problem with this is, and it drives me crazy, I keep hearing “if we talked to them-”
I’m a woman! They won’t talk to me! Or, if they do, it’s to tell me why I’m wrong, because I’m a woman! This isn’t something I can deprogram away!
And trust me, I’ve deprogrammed right-wing shitheads before, who weren’t also misogynists. I can’t do shit for the ones who aren’t willing to talk to me. And the worst part? I have gotten lots of seemingly hopeless people into committed, loving, long-term relationships through the power of just listen to me, I can help you, but nooooo! I have breasts! I’m almost 40! I have a happy, long-term relationship, and I’m a woman, so what can I possibly know!
I’m sick to death of ‘we just need to-’ No we don’t, because we can’t. Men need to. Men need to break through this toxic bullshit because we, and by this I mean, women, literally can’t. And trying- and trust me on this because I’ve tried- trying only gets abuse.
I really can’t underscore this enough. The wall I come up against is, what do you know, you’re a woman. “We” can’t talk our way out of this one. The problem of toxic masculinity intentionally boxes women out, making it nigh impossible for women to help.
I know. The main thing they need is a non-misogynist male role model, which is becoming increasingly hard to find because apparently social media algorithms encourage the type of content that pushes them in the opposite direction.
Realistically, imo, the main way women can help with this, besides talking to them very early on (VERY early on, as Tate-types are unfortunately gaining traction in school as well), is trying to combat the misandrist narrative that keeps on growing in feminist spaces. One example is the whole Bear debacle, which furthered the divide between genders even more. If people (in general, I’m sure many men shared it as well) keep making stuff like that go viral, it makes it harder and harder for young males to develop any sort of empathy for the opposite sex.
I find it very difficult to empathize with the ‘bear thing,’ because, as my fiance (who is a man) put it, ‘I don’t know why anyone would pick any other human over the bear. Bears tend to avoid you and do your own thing. Humans are unpredictable.’
From that perspective, it seemed like a lot of people just got mad because they identify with the word ‘man,’ here, and don’t want to think of themselves as capable of evil. Which would be naive, because everyone is capable of anything.
Except that nobody stigmatises people for being a white male and having problems.
Everyone has problems; the fact is though, that this rhetoric you just used, is part of a tactic to sow division. When the real problem is the oligarchs, that want to distract from them causing those problems.
The ‘loneliness pandemic’? Caused by dating companies trying to profit on relationships. The more often you get a date but that just about fails, the better.
Your feed showing ragebait? Again, it feeds the algorithm and interaction with that social network, giving the owner more profit.
Toxic masculinity communities absolutely stigmatise; try for example showing empathy, hugging friends, and so on… and toxic masculinity communities by definition, are extremely hateful towards any sort of compassion. They trap you in a cycle fed by rich people so that you focus hatred on minorities, which ultimately share the same problems just as you.
Everyone is poorer, everyone has issues to work through, everyone needs a good home and life, affordable and healthy food; and the prime cause for all that being impossible, is oligarchs trying to divide us; because they know we have strength in numbers.
I know broadly that the left has pretty much abandoned any talk making people’s personal lives better and instead has tripled down on the idea that “bad people are bad” for the sake of some lofty and impossible ideal of a star-trek world so liberals can broadly feel like they’re a part of some social good. Look at the votes here now, we have created a reactionary space exactly like the right.
Dare suggest that young men have ANY problems? STRAIGHT TO THE NAZI-RIGHT WITH YOU. Never mind that these are kids who have never felt an ounce of privilege in their lives, so telling them they’re entitled instead of talking to them and giving advice for getting girls and romance just pushes them away. But it just feels so good to hate a side though, right???
But that damage is done. We have a massive rightward swing in the US because we mismanaged fucking talking to each other. Like tripping and breaking your skull while laying in bed. We deserve this mess honestly.
We have created spaces where people with any differences are segregated and you will get roasted in places like this for reminding delusional lefties that even if we got our socialist revolution (which someone else will lead, aannnny day now), we would still have to live next to hundreds of millions of people who didn’t want it. That usually draws a lot of ire because it’s not optimistic enough and involves the uncomfortable truth that we share a world with people who aren’t going to always “get it” and we need to work, live and talk amongst them. Forever.
Where i’m baffled though is the basic math. Younger people are having less and less sex and relationships, people are broadly staying single and not dating or having any intimacy well into adulthood and often have NO plans to date or have a family even, so how is this eruption of sweaty used-car-salesmen making traction? There are no success stories, it’s entirely manufactured. It’s no different than the flat-earth movement but for pudgy white teenage boys.
We are a species that rather withdraw into our own narratives than face reality and it will be our great filter.
The “success story” is Andrew Tate, and probably even people like Musk or Trump. They see how extremely misogynistic people manage to get with multiple women nonetheless and get fooled into thinking being “stoic” and generally a jerk is the key to getting laid. They don’t realize that those people are just rich and are getting laid despite their personality, not thanks to it.
Then there’s also the ones who are fully aware of this and are sold on the “grind mentality”, so that they can get rich like them (again, missing the point on how all of them either did it through crimes, were born rich, or both).
Of course if you look at it with some logic it all falls apart, but you can’t expect young people to have enough knowledge to do this. They need some positive role model to tell them right from wrong, but it’s becoming increasingly hard when the negative ones keep springing up like mushrooms.
But that’s the thing. Tate isn’t a success story.
How is someone who beats wives and rapes children alike a success story? Applies to both.
How is someone a success story, when they get into crippling debt and can’t even get their dick up, yet claim to be the perfect image of a virile guy?
For me, as one of those “success stories”, true success lies in empathy and respect. Hard work must be used to give back to society, and whoever gives not back, must be respectfully shunned and made to give back, until they reach out and ask for help; and then answer is given in the form of unionising, protesting against oligarchies trying to break down mental health facilities, protesting against hatred that must fail to divide us.
Types that may seem beyond saving, I think can be saved; if they radicalised once, they can deradicalise once again. But it does require effort.