• SirSamuel@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      “…Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism’s in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, “I don’t believe in the Beatles, I just believe in me.” Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I’d still have to bum rides off people.”

      • FundMECFS@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        3 months ago

        Yes. Without them there is no justification for inequality. So to the people in power, they are very important.

        But incase you genuinely believe that social order is impossible without hierarchies, you should probably read up on stateless societies, communal decision making, and anarchism.

        • SamboT@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          If the goal of society is to put equality above all else then i take your point.

          I think horizontal hierarchies are generally better in an organization in terms of motivating people to contribute and give them a sense of equity.

          But idk how you avoid the fact that people do have bad ideas, or well intentioned ideas that could start a cascade of delays in project planning for example. People focusing on the excellence at different levels of work is important right? But having a chain of command to maintain vision, timelines, budgets, stakeholders seems to depend on hierarchy.

          • WrittenInRed [She/They]@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            3 months ago

            I think the main rebuttal to that argument is what stops that from happening in a hierarchy? If anything having one makes that more likely, since someone in charge can have a bad idea and no one below them has any real power to stop it. There’s a reason “incompetent boss/manager” is such a common trope. Having a horizontal structure where consensus is prioritized actually helps prevent those sorts of issues, since people who are the most knowledgeable and involved in the process are the ones making those decisions. It’s why group brainstorming sessions are so common, bouncing ideas off of other people involved in a project is extremely useful to help filter or improve bad ideas and build on good ones. Horizontal groups are sort of the natural state that you fall into when collaborating with people when there isn’t an existing rigidly enforced hierarchy between the members.

          • lugal@sopuli.xyz
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            3 months ago

            They seem to depend on hierarchies but there are decision making processes that do not depend on hierarchies even tho they might resemble them on first glance. You can have a council that makes decisions on a consensual basis, sends revocable delegates to upper level councils. This might seem like representatives as in modern parliaments but the revocable part is important. If they can be called back at any point and the position is temporal from the start, this changes everything. Also decisions should be on the lowest possible level and everything must be voluntary.

            • kautau@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              a council

              delegates

              upper level councils

              Just confirming, this is a hierarchy. Certainly in your comment a better designed hierarchy, but still a hierarchy