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3rd wave kinda… did that on their own. Barely a few years ago there were ‘feminists’ shutting down MRA sessions by pulling fire alarms where it was literally a bunch of dudes talking about their problems. It’s still relatively recent memory that people who called themselves feminists were some of the most unhinged human beings we had to deal with.
Yes, you can argue “those weren’t actually feminists” or “they were extreme and don’t represent everyone” but a lot of people still have those feminists in mind when the term comes up. It’s not “men who hate women” who created this perception, it is the women who hate men.
Yeah, why do that when you can let women who hate men define feminism as ‘women who hate men’ lol
Like seriously, are we just gonna pretend that the feminist movement doesn’t have a ton of loud, hateful bigots who often take way too long to be kicked out? Hell, even TERFs still get to call themselves ‘feminists’ somehow.
Terfs are not feminists and do not define feminism
‘Trans-exclusionary radical feminists’ are, as much as you hate them, ‘feminist’ by definition. They’ve been part of this movement since before the term was a thing, and continue to be part of it. Hell, the term itself wasn’t even meant to be derogatory when it was conceived.
Leave it to Lemmy’s 77% male userbase to discredit the entire feminism movement because some self-proclaimed ‘feminists’ are misandrists and TERFs in sheep’s clothing.
Women are always held responsible for other people’s behaviors. Holding the vast majority of normal feminists who just want to be treated like people accountable for the actions of a crazy minority of men-hating folks is just another example of this.
lol I love how you’re using ‘TERFs’ as a scapegoat while ignoring that TERFs are, quite literally, Trans-exclusionary Radical Feminists. They’re not ‘masquerading’ as anything, they are feminists and have always been. They’re also mostly women, which means these specific women are being held accountable for their own behavior. To claim otherwise is to infantilize these women and take their agency away from them.
Lemmy and its ‘77% male userbase’ can hardly be blamed for the real and enduring shortcomings in the feminist movement itself. It’s not a problem that should simply be ignored or handwaved away if feminists want to get rid of the stigma their movement carries.
This may come as a surprise to you, but people often deliberately mislabel themselves for credibility, or believe themselves to be something that they are not. For example, so called ‘leftists’ in the US are actually centrists and by international standards.
You are holding all women feminists accountable for the actions of a few self-proclaimed women feminists. That is not infantilization, that is pointing out the impossible standards that women are held to by anti-feminists and how some women will always be blamed for the actions of others.
Lemmy’s userbase is problematic because often times people don’t think about whether or not their experiences are relevant before speaking. Judging by your condemnation of feminists because of misandrists who claim to be one, you don’t seem to understand that feminism is fundamentally about equality and bringing men and women up to par with each other. This goes beyond just women’s rights. Feminism is just as much about making safe spaces for discussions about men’s mental health, male sexual assault victims, paternity leave, custody, and so much more. The reason why these things are not accessible to lots of men is the same reason why women aren’t being treated as people. It’s because of systemic patriarchal barriers that force men and women alike to conform to certain detrimental behaviors or be ostracized.
Look, it doesn’t matter what you want the movement to be about or what you think TERFs are. The reality is that TERF isn’t a self-given label, radical feminist isn’t a self-given label, and more than a few notable individuals in the feminist movement (a movement that, at its core, is about womens’ rights) are misandrist. This is a reality that, no matter how much you pretend is fake, is still real.
And if feminists spend more time denying this reality than actively changing it, the movement itself won’t change, nor will its general perception.
Christ can you not understand that most feminists fundamentally disagree with TERFs? I don’t know why you are so insistant to lump them with actual feminist. Maybe consider listening to feminists, like me, instead of perpetually mansplaining about what feminists are.
It’s not a ‘general perception’ that all feminists are TERFs. It’s what your perception and the perceptions of other anti-feminists. Hell most normal men, who are feminists with or without labels, don’t share your perception. You seem to have this warped perception that all feminists are out to get you and hate on men, when the reality is so far from the radicalized scheme that you think it is. People like you perceive the existance of feminism as an attack on you. It’s not. It’s not even about you, because you don’t seem to care about men’s issues either. It’s about everyone else who wants to lift men and women above the patriarchy.
Wow, didn’t take you long to get personal with your replies huh. Keep blaming the terrible image of the feminist movement on ‘misogynists’ all you want, but it’s misandrists, TERFs and other bigots in the movement who give it a bad name, as well as the people who only respond to criticism of the movement itself with deflection, accusations and ad hominem.
Anyway, it’s not like I care anymore what the image of the feminist movement is; I stopped associating with it ages ago. Do with it what you will.
You’re not going to argue equality away by bringing up the worst people you can think of associated with the movement. There is no substance to arguments based on ad hominem character attacks. I don’t care how transphobic someone is, feminism is about equality for women. There is nothing misandrist about wanting to be equal to men in society. And here is a reality check for you, no one needs to be nice, or have a good public perception, to get human rights. Our rights are supposed to be something you get for being human.
The ‘worst people’ shape the image of the movement. The core of the argument still doesn’t change, no matter what you say. The ones defining feminism as ‘women who hate men’ aren’t misogynists alone; it’s the misandrists within the movement itself.
