It’s interesting you say you dont get why people are so obsessed with other people’s genitals, when you seemingly care very much about the supposed unethicalness of other adults consentual sex lives. You’ve somehow managed to flip the very same ideological structure that has allowed poly people to be prosecuted historically, and just pointed that oppressive structure at monogamous folks instead. It’s in essence the very same mechanism just with the details flipped.
I think you should reflect upon that. It’s obvious from your comments that there’s the same sort of mechanism at play as when traditionalists prejudice poly people. It’s a failure to empathize. Some things work best for some people, and that’s okay, let them live in their way, and some other things work best for some other people, and that’s okay too, also let them live in their way.
me: I think slavery is bad because it unfairly controls other people
You: you are the unethical one. trying to control what other people do with lives
not a serious answer, doesn’t warrant a serious response.
instead of pointing why my grievances with monogamy are wrong, (mentioned repeatedly in many of the threads that spawn here), you just made up a bs reason why any moral standards is unethical.
I also find it ironic how you managed to compare monogamy to slavery, and then proceed to call me the unserious one. I dont see how they are comparable at all.
How is a relationship wherein both people agree that, as long as they are together they only have sex with one another, and, if that agreement can no longer be honored, to go their separate ways, be unethical? Thats consent and boundary establishment and free association all the way through…
Social punishment for cheating, is often social isolation. I don’t think a minor victimless infraction warrant said punishment.
And the fact that there’s another person who has the right to consent on your own body sounds very iffy.
Also, we treat “monogamy” as a natural thing. it isn’t. if it was, there would be no divorces, breakups, or affairs.
Also the state and religions push monogamy as the upmost important relationship in someone’s life, rather than community, which atomises people and destroys communities with the modern invention of “nuclear family”. where evey need is comodified rather than being provided by a community.
Social punishment isnt inherent to the social relation we call monogamy, thats social norms, a connected but different thing. We can all agree social norms often disparage people, but again different conversation.
And its not ‘a fact’ that people in monogamous relations have consent over the other persons body, in fact, they only have consent over their own. If the other person doesnt want to do monogamy, they are free to pursue that type of relation on their own. Thats their choice, as it is the monogamous persons choice to not stay in a relationship with a partner that doesnt want a monogamous relationship. Insisting they have to be together, irregardles of the wishes of the other person, sounds unproductive and unhealthy to me.
“We treat monogamy as a natural thing” i dont. I recognize societal norms propogate one type of relationship, but that is once again a different conversation than the supposed ethicalness of a specific social dynamic. The dynamic an sich is different from the norms around it.
Dont let your grievences with the system become judgements of the people caught within.
I swear, erotador makes one small comment about being poly and it turns into a winding ass thread about the ethics of monogamy. I may be poly, but if I was in a relationship with the expectation of monogamy, I’d feel betrayed if they then broke that expectation without telling me. The problem wouldn’t be that they slept with someone, the problem would be that they lied. They would be free to be with whoever they want, but all of my relationships are contingent on open communication. If that communication isn’t there, then the agreement is broken.
I mentioned somewhere here that I consider putting such expectations on someone unethical. If my partner has an affair they would tell me and I would be happy for her or neutral, but if they were hiding it, and lying then there was no really a relationship to begin with, just a lie that should end sooner than later.
And in another thread, I said that the social punishment for people who cheat is too severe, often being social isolation. For an infraction I would personally consider as bad as cheating on a diet. For something that causes no harm to anyone.
It’s interesting you say you dont get why people are so obsessed with other people’s genitals, when you seemingly care very much about the supposed unethicalness of other adults consentual sex lives. You’ve somehow managed to flip the very same ideological structure that has allowed poly people to be prosecuted historically, and just pointed that oppressive structure at monogamous folks instead. It’s in essence the very same mechanism just with the details flipped.
I think you should reflect upon that. It’s obvious from your comments that there’s the same sort of mechanism at play as when traditionalists prejudice poly people. It’s a failure to empathize. Some things work best for some people, and that’s okay, let them live in their way, and some other things work best for some other people, and that’s okay too, also let them live in their way.
me: I think slavery is bad because it unfairly controls other people
You: you are the unethical one. trying to control what other people do with lives
not a serious answer, doesn’t warrant a serious response.
instead of pointing why my grievances with monogamy are wrong, (mentioned repeatedly in many of the threads that spawn here), you just made up a bs reason why any moral standards is unethical.
I never called you unethical.
I also find it ironic how you managed to compare monogamy to slavery, and then proceed to call me the unserious one. I dont see how they are comparable at all.
How is a relationship wherein both people agree that, as long as they are together they only have sex with one another, and, if that agreement can no longer be honored, to go their separate ways, be unethical? Thats consent and boundary establishment and free association all the way through…
Social punishment for cheating, is often social isolation. I don’t think a minor victimless infraction warrant said punishment.
And the fact that there’s another person who has the right to consent on your own body sounds very iffy.
Also, we treat “monogamy” as a natural thing. it isn’t. if it was, there would be no divorces, breakups, or affairs.
Also the state and religions push monogamy as the upmost important relationship in someone’s life, rather than community, which atomises people and destroys communities with the modern invention of “nuclear family”. where evey need is comodified rather than being provided by a community.
Social punishment isnt inherent to the social relation we call monogamy, thats social norms, a connected but different thing. We can all agree social norms often disparage people, but again different conversation.
And its not ‘a fact’ that people in monogamous relations have consent over the other persons body, in fact, they only have consent over their own. If the other person doesnt want to do monogamy, they are free to pursue that type of relation on their own. Thats their choice, as it is the monogamous persons choice to not stay in a relationship with a partner that doesnt want a monogamous relationship. Insisting they have to be together, irregardles of the wishes of the other person, sounds unproductive and unhealthy to me.
“We treat monogamy as a natural thing” i dont. I recognize societal norms propogate one type of relationship, but that is once again a different conversation than the supposed ethicalness of a specific social dynamic. The dynamic an sich is different from the norms around it.
Dont let your grievences with the system become judgements of the people caught within.
I swear, erotador makes one small comment about being poly and it turns into a winding ass thread about the ethics of monogamy. I may be poly, but if I was in a relationship with the expectation of monogamy, I’d feel betrayed if they then broke that expectation without telling me. The problem wouldn’t be that they slept with someone, the problem would be that they lied. They would be free to be with whoever they want, but all of my relationships are contingent on open communication. If that communication isn’t there, then the agreement is broken.
I mentioned somewhere here that I consider putting such expectations on someone unethical. If my partner has an affair they would tell me and I would be happy for her or neutral, but if they were hiding it, and lying then there was no really a relationship to begin with, just a lie that should end sooner than later.
And in another thread, I said that the social punishment for people who cheat is too severe, often being social isolation. For an infraction I would personally consider as bad as cheating on a diet. For something that causes no harm to anyone.