And you think your uncle is a scalable solution to a city of millions of people. These positions dont scale. Some quick googling show about a half a millions workers in waste remediation in the us in 2023. Do you honestly think you could find half a million people like your uncle that all live spread out enough to fill all the positions (thats on the low end of need also fyi, not surprisingly they have high turnover and difficulty keeping staff for extended periods) around the entire us and that those people would never lose motivation or get burned out or just tired or stop caring. Because that is what we need and that is a single job for a single industry.
I just think it’s boring that you think money is the only reasonable motivator for these people. There are other forms of compensation and appreciation. And it’s not the only option available to us. It’s crazy to me that people understand the idea of countries that have military conscription but can’t fathom the idea of a system of workable civil conscription.
As I see it you successfully identified a problem and a solution, but that does not suggest that that is the sole or even best solution.
When you do your scaling you need to scale everything. The adult population of the US is estimated as 266 million people as of now. Half a million is roughly 1 adult in 530 people. Let’s quadruple it up so they have nice relaxed works schedule. Let’s say now you need 4 people per 530. If you think you can’t find 10 out of 1000 people who would do some sanitation work, with no stress and without having to think where their next meal comes from, you just never met people.
And this is the most important part that you seem to ignore - when people’s basic means are met, they want to fulfill higher levels of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. For some that means doing arts or doing some engineering or running a company. For some, and there are s many of those some, that means “it’s not much but it’s honest work”. Doing small visible changes that make the world the better place one picked up piece of rubbish at a time, is exactly, precisely what significant portion of humanity will be doing.
This also works in another direction: billions of people who would be doing something grand and moving humanity further, are stuck in mundane repetitive broken jobs they hate, because they’re stuck in this cycle of needing to grind to survive, without having a moment to breath, which slowly kills every bit of light they once had a potential to have.
That half a million is an extreme lowball number based on a single waste management company. And no i dont think you’ll find 10 in every thousand evenly spread that will want to do this for fun. Those half a million people turn over every couple of months with pay and benefits. And this will apply to every industry and every critical need of society. Theres already a massive shortage of medical personelle and that pays better than most of what were discussing. No it just xoesnt scale
I like how your own numbers immediately started to be unreliable the second I used them.
Again, we’re walking in circles because you’all refuse to even acknowledge the argument.
Shitty jobs are shitty because of financial intensives to keep it so. They don’t need to be. We have shortage of sanitation workers because they have to care about “pay and benefits”, and because companies try to pay them less and make them work more so they spend less money on workforce. They hesitate to improve their working environment because there is no “economic incentive” to do so. They don’t do automation because labour is cheaper. All of that are problems caused by revolving all what we do around making profit for shareholders.
We have so much labour that we just waste on people doing bullshit with the ultimate goal of the imaginary line going up. Obviously if we keep that, we don’t get people to do other work, all the people are overworked to death and also for some reason starving and struggling.
They have shortage of medical personnel despite them being rewarded with a bunch of money, and then you turn around and say that if we don’t do financial stick and carrot, we will have shortage of workers. Do you not see the obvious problem with this logic?
And you think your uncle is a scalable solution to a city of millions of people. These positions dont scale. Some quick googling show about a half a millions workers in waste remediation in the us in 2023. Do you honestly think you could find half a million people like your uncle that all live spread out enough to fill all the positions (thats on the low end of need also fyi, not surprisingly they have high turnover and difficulty keeping staff for extended periods) around the entire us and that those people would never lose motivation or get burned out or just tired or stop caring. Because that is what we need and that is a single job for a single industry.
Its not scalable
I just think it’s boring that you think money is the only reasonable motivator for these people. There are other forms of compensation and appreciation. And it’s not the only option available to us. It’s crazy to me that people understand the idea of countries that have military conscription but can’t fathom the idea of a system of workable civil conscription.
As I see it you successfully identified a problem and a solution, but that does not suggest that that is the sole or even best solution.
Where did i mention money at all
When you do your scaling you need to scale everything. The adult population of the US is estimated as 266 million people as of now. Half a million is roughly 1 adult in 530 people. Let’s quadruple it up so they have nice relaxed works schedule. Let’s say now you need 4 people per 530. If you think you can’t find 10 out of 1000 people who would do some sanitation work, with no stress and without having to think where their next meal comes from, you just never met people.
And this is the most important part that you seem to ignore - when people’s basic means are met, they want to fulfill higher levels of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. For some that means doing arts or doing some engineering or running a company. For some, and there are s many of those some, that means “it’s not much but it’s honest work”. Doing small visible changes that make the world the better place one picked up piece of rubbish at a time, is exactly, precisely what significant portion of humanity will be doing.
This also works in another direction: billions of people who would be doing something grand and moving humanity further, are stuck in mundane repetitive broken jobs they hate, because they’re stuck in this cycle of needing to grind to survive, without having a moment to breath, which slowly kills every bit of light they once had a potential to have.
That half a million is an extreme lowball number based on a single waste management company. And no i dont think you’ll find 10 in every thousand evenly spread that will want to do this for fun. Those half a million people turn over every couple of months with pay and benefits. And this will apply to every industry and every critical need of society. Theres already a massive shortage of medical personelle and that pays better than most of what were discussing. No it just xoesnt scale
I like how your own numbers immediately started to be unreliable the second I used them.
Again, we’re walking in circles because you’all refuse to even acknowledge the argument.
Shitty jobs are shitty because of financial intensives to keep it so. They don’t need to be. We have shortage of sanitation workers because they have to care about “pay and benefits”, and because companies try to pay them less and make them work more so they spend less money on workforce. They hesitate to improve their working environment because there is no “economic incentive” to do so. They don’t do automation because labour is cheaper. All of that are problems caused by revolving all what we do around making profit for shareholders.
We have so much labour that we just waste on people doing bullshit with the ultimate goal of the imaginary line going up. Obviously if we keep that, we don’t get people to do other work, all the people are overworked to death and also for some reason starving and struggling.
They have shortage of medical personnel despite them being rewarded with a bunch of money, and then you turn around and say that if we don’t do financial stick and carrot, we will have shortage of workers. Do you not see the obvious problem with this logic?